Russell Harvey: The Optimist

In this episode of "Humor in the C Suite," host Kate Davis welcomes resilience expert Russell Harvey. Throughout the episode, Russell elaborates on the intricacies of resilience coaching, emphasizing the balance between creativity and pragmatism. He explains how humor can be a powerful tool for leaders, facilitating open-mindedness and improved team dynamics, even in complex or challenging situations. By sharing personal anecdotes and practical examples, Russell illustrates how storytelling and humor can make rigorous corporate environments more human-centered and supportive. His unique approach to encouraging leaders to embrace laughter and optimism is a refreshing take on enduring corporate challenges, infused with warmth and insight.

Key Takeaways:

• Humor is an essential aspect of resilient leadership, fostering team cohesion and bridging human connections in the workplace.
• Positive psychology and resilience can proactively prepare individuals and organizations for life's unpredictability by focusing on growth-oriented strategies.
• Building resilience involves understanding and balancing different strengths, with humor serving as a critical tool in personal and professional development.
• Optimism, rather than naive positivity, is a grounded approach tied to recognizing and leveraging strengths to face challenges efficiently.
• Transforming corporate culture with humor and creativity can lead to profound improvements in innovation and employee engagement.

"Part of being resilient is having a purpose and humor, laughter is a tool to get there." — Russell Harvey

Additional Links & Resources:

• Interested in being a guest on Humor in the C-Suite? Reach out to book a call with Kate!
• Learn more about me and my work at katedavis.ca

Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Humor in the C-Suite! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow the podcast, share it with your friends, and leave a rating or review. Your support helps the podcast continue to grow. 

Hosted by Kate Davis
Edited by Chris @ Wider View Studios

Transcript

0:00:03 - (Kate Davis): Hello, I'm Kate Davis and this is Humor in the C Suite, a show about how leaders use humor to create an extraordinary work culture. Hi everyone. Welcome to this week's episode of Humor in the C Suite. My guest this week is Russell Harvey. He is a resilience coach, facilitator and public speaker. His purpose is to positively affect over a hundred thousand people by the end of this year, which he is already done.

0:00:27 - (Kate Davis): But how he did it is way more interesting. He did this by developing a client's self confidence, providing clarity and direction to their role, giving them the tools and techniques to create the right conditions to apply transformation to their department, their organizations and their company and much, much more. Russell's had over a 20 year career learning in leadership and organizational development.

0:00:50 - (Kate Davis): And his overall styles, influence by positive psychology and a strength based approach. When working with clients. He aims to strike the right balance between pragmatism, creativity, playfulness, support, challenge and progress. And in addition to all that, he is on the chair of governors for the local primary school and a volunteer with LEADS young authors. He also runs a public speaking and confidence workshops in the schools. What isn't he doing?

0:01:18 - (Kate Davis): We had a great conversation. I'm so excited for you guys to hear it. So please welcome Russell Harvey.

0:01:27 - (Russell Harvey): Hello to everybody listening and watching. I am the resilience coach. Not any old resilience coach, that's the business, the resilience coach. So I've specialized for about 16, 17 years in how to lead yourself and others really well in a volatile, uncertain, complex, ambiguous world, essentially. So you know what it really means to be a resilient leader is, is my specialism. And the business was 10 years old this month.

0:01:56 - (Kate Davis): Wow.

0:01:56 - (Russell Harvey): Which I'm really pleased about. And one of the dimensions of being resilient is having a purpose. So until last week my purpose was to positively affect 100,000 people by the year 2025. And last year I did it essentially. So, you know, I've got to find a new purpose now, essentially. Yeah. So yeah, I'm in Leeds, north of England, love to travel, got a lovely wife and just really love, you know, supporting people around actually. What on earth does it mean to be a resilient leader and try and make it as real as possible, as interesting as possible?

0:02:33 - (Kate Davis): Yeah, it's, it's fascinating to me what happened to you that you had to be so resilient to become a resilience coach. Does he actually?

0:02:43 - (Russell Harvey): Well, so I think it was a, was a long term thing. So in the learning and development world I was made Redundant six times. So, you know, it's like, not necessarily that, but I was made. Yeah. So. And it was on the sixth time that I finally felt right to go out in business by myself essentially. And I think throughout all of that career as well of. So I know I am biased towards the humans. I understand that systems and data and processes and technology is incredibly important, but I am biased towards the humans in the business. And throughout my whole of my working career that always felt like it was a, it was a fight, it was a battle to go, actually, should we just. Should we talk about the humans? And then also recently.

0:03:28 - (Russell Harvey): So it wasn't as a result of many years of the Resilience coach. The last few years my wife has been incredibly unwell. So I've had to support her essentially.

0:03:37 - (Kate Davis): Right.

0:03:38 - (Russell Harvey): Which that's not what you expect in life. But it happens. It happens to all of us. She's on a road for recovery, where she'll eventually get to, who knows. But she's lovely and she's unwell.

0:03:49 - (Kate Davis): Wow, that's. Life is messy, that's for sure, you know? Yeah. And it's so interesting to me how many people you really want to affect through being resilience coach to the next hundred thousand, for sure. So, okay, so let's get into it. How do you use humor in your day to day life? You're British, so I'm assuming you just, you know, you're sarcastic, but. Yeah, but tell me, do you have a trick or.

0:04:17 - (Russell Harvey): Oh, it's, it's. I think it's really, it's in the moment. So it's like you find. It's, it's in the moment really. You just find things or, you know, you sort of said, you know what? I'm chuckling away now. Something that you've said has reminded me so very much about the storytelling and it is definitely, you know, one of the many things that resilient individuals do as well, you know, is that they have a sense of humor and it is, you know, it's unique to everybody.

0:04:44 - (Russell Harvey): But sometimes instead of sort of asking the question, you know, what's the opportunity here as a coach? It's like, what's the funny.

0:04:52 - (Kate Davis): Right.

0:04:53 - (Russell Harvey): You know, what, what is it that you're finding ridiculous right now? You know, how, how daft and silly and stupid is it that we're in this pickle, that we're in this situation? You know, what is it that you're just sort of going, well, my word, you know, how on earth and I have done a lot of work with our National Health Service as well, which is wonderful. Incredible. And that has also been under the, gosh, like all health services for a long period of time. And you find that there is quite a dark humor amongst those as well.

0:05:24 - (Russell Harvey): So there are some times when you sort of, you're, you're twitching to go, yeah, that is funny. Well, yeah, you've gone there, but that's dark.

0:05:33 - (Kate Davis): So when you're coaching, how do you incorporate humor into their leadership style or how do you encourage that?

0:05:40 - (Russell Harvey): Well, yeah, so one of the things I do is around positive psychology. So I use a psychometric called strength scope, essentially. And so some people may find it easier to tap into the funny depending on what some of their strengths are. Know, because if you've got people that are really stuck in sort of executive function thinking, then, you know, they find it a little bit more challenging to find the funny.

0:06:13 - (Russell Harvey): So, you know, it depends on that essentially. So we about to say something there.

0:06:17 - (Kate Davis): Yeah. When you say executive style, what do you mean by that?

0:06:22 - (Russell Harvey): So in terms of like they, they may be, they might be internal, real internal thinkers, they might be critical thinkers, they might be problem solvers. So it isn't so really simplistically. If somebody can tap into their creativity idea generation, they find it easier to then think about the humorous side of things. So because using your humorous part, your brain means that you've got a switch off, other bits to switch on. The humor is whether it's individual, it's trying to tap into that. And it, but it's also as well, when people are under the cost, I say to them, you know, your, your task is to go away from here and, and do something that's going to give you a belly laugh.

0:07:05 - (Russell Harvey): It, it's, I need you to, I need you to find a release, whatever it is that works for you. I need you to go away and actually find the comedian or read the book or look at the video or whatever it is going to be. Talk to somebody, you know, that has made you laugh because then that's a release of the endorphins then as well, you know.

0:07:25 - (Kate Davis): Yeah. And a great pressure valve for sure.

0:07:27 - (Russell Harvey): Yes.

0:07:28 - (Kate Davis): Yeah. Do you find it helps your leaders with team cohesion, like when they're trying to build their teams?

0:07:36 - (Russell Harvey): Absolutely, yes, it is, you know, if, if you can't, because this is about humans coming together. You know, we are social creatures. We enjoy spending time with each other. So true, genuine social connection is one of the many pieces of research that shows that Ashley's gonna be part of a resilient team. So this isn't about going to the pub and getting drunk.

0:07:58 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:07:58 - (Russell Harvey): It's about. Okay, so you've got to enjoy spending time with each other. So tell us about your life's experiences. And then the leader obviously has to share some of their life's experiences. You know, oh, a funny thing happened to me on the way to work today, you know, those types of things. And I need to show that vulnerability to be able to get used to doing it.

0:08:21 - (Kate Davis): Definitely takes it from transactional to human, which I love.

0:08:24 - (Russell Harvey): Yeah.

0:08:24 - (Kate Davis): Which is what you're trying to get your leaders to do in positive psychology. Are they teaching humor within that sort of framework?

0:08:33 - (Russell Harvey): So I'm not humor per se, Kate. No, I think it really is a case of, you know, what makes us human. It keeps. It's like, we keep talking about that and laughter is part of it. And so you can go into different office spaces and I know where a lot of it's in the virtual world, but when you walk around office buildings, things, you know, I gravitate towards the team. That's just, it's got a bit more noise that's going on, it's got a bit more chatter and then, you know, where there's a bit of laughter that takes place, that's where I head towards and go, you know, what's going over here?

0:09:04 - (Russell Harvey): Because, you know, because there's some good stuff that's happening essentially when there's some laughter going on.

0:09:10 - (Kate Davis): Do you. Do you find it helps with curiosity and innovation and all those things when teams are laughing together?

0:09:16 - (Russell Harvey): Absolutely, yes. So I do a lot of creativity and innovation events and facilitation and so, yeah, you know, it's like one of them is, what would a five year old do? So, you know, getting groups of leaders to go access their inner child and act like a five year old. It's good. One of them, my best ones is it was in a proper C suite in a boardroom with all the sort of the walnut veneer around it. And I went for a comfort break and I came back and the MD of the business was sitting under his desk with his tie wrapped around his head, sucking his thumb, you know, and I was just like, you all right under there? And he went, yeah, just. Just accessing the inner child.

0:09:59 - (Russell Harvey): Yeah. And it was like, it was like, wow. Okay.

0:10:05 - (Kate Davis): Yeah, yeah. That's amazing. That is crazy that. Are there any other games you play with them that you can share?

0:10:16 - (Russell Harvey): Well, so the, the creativity one, you can do loads. So. So there's like a four stage Approach when with the creativity one. The sort of, the sort of, the back explanation, the backstory to that is so often organizations will come to me and say, you know, we need our people to come up with some more ideas. And most of the time when I inquire with the potential new client about what do you mean? Unfortunately most time they, what they mean is, well, when we ask them for an idea maybe once a month, can you just, can you just get them to give us some answers then? But the rest of the time, can you just get them to be quiet and get them on with their job? And I go, that's not going to work.

0:10:55 - (Russell Harvey): Okay, you can't do that. So it's like, if you're going to bring me in, we have to understand that creativity, innovation has to be part of the day to day. You know, that that's part of it. And then in the part where we do the idea generation, so that is, what would a five year old do? There's visit the animal kingdom. So it's literally just go explore what these different animals would do and also, you know, invite someone famous to your table and ask, you know, so in this instance, what would, how would Genghis Khan approach this?

0:11:30 - (Russell Harvey): How would so and so would approach this? How would sounds approach this? And it's in those where there's a lot of, of fun happening in the room essentially at that moment in time. And then yeah, you, you, the art of the possible comes up, the openness comes up and then the next bit is to go right, by holding on to this idea of the art of the possible, we now need to put an element of pragmatism to this.

0:12:00 - (Russell Harvey): But not to dismiss everything, you know, it's like, let's just keep going with what's possible, you know, what would you be brave with? And that works, that works really well.

0:12:11 - (Kate Davis): That's so interesting because humor takes so much bravery, I find, to really trust it or to really, you know, and it's not making light of the situation, it's, it's really helping move forward in spite of the situation.

0:12:24 - (Russell Harvey): Absolutely, absolutely. Yes.

0:12:25 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:12:26 - (Russell Harvey): So I don't know if you've just, if you've noticed the individual behind me.

0:12:30 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:12:33 - (Russell Harvey): So that, that is to try and make sure that I don't take myself too seriously. So that phrenology, you know, is old ancient buncombe theory about literally certain parts of your brain, you know, they had this bit in it. Okay. So I don't know what one of them would be. And they would say, what's something like, oh yeah, there's blandness. You know, this part of the brain is blandness. So this is, that's, it's rubbish, it's made up pseudoscience.

0:13:05 - (Russell Harvey): So I have to make sure that a lot of the time when I talk about things that I have to double check whether it's like a neuro myth or something that we thought that used to be the case. But so that is literally over my shoulder and it's just a bit of a sensor check of actually don't take yourself too seriously. Have, you know, have you said something just then that, you know, you need to go double check the research or you need to make sure that, you.

0:13:28 - (Kate Davis): Know, I love that. Always have a reminder, you know what I mean?

0:13:32 - (Russell Harvey): Yes, absolutely. Yes.

0:13:37 - (Kate Davis): Hi, it's Kate. I can't believe you made it halfway through the show. Look, if you or anyone you know would like to be a guest on Humor in the C suite, I would love to have you, so email me. Kate Davis, ca Do you find when you're, when you're in these coaching sessions that you're having to gauge your sense of humor within that context?

0:14:01 - (Russell Harvey): I think I know what you mean, but just explain the question a bit more.

0:14:05 - (Kate Davis): Like, do you find that you're able to bring your sense of humor to those situations? Are you having to adjust because you're knowing your audience kind of thing?

0:14:14 - (Russell Harvey): Oh, yeah. So. So on the individual coaching that will come from all of the contracting conversations that we've had about literally, you know, this is me, you've obviously now bought my services, we've talked about, but it's now a case of like, this is how I'm going to work. You know, how comfortable we're going to feel if we, if we go off on a tangent somewhere and we explore something, they might feel a bit challenging to you or different or open minded or humorous or curiosity. It's like, you know, how are you going to enable yourself to go with it essentially?

0:14:45 - (Russell Harvey): And my natural style if I'm doing like leadership development programs and speaking at a conference, you know, is I'm an upbeat type of individual. And so she's just, you know, you've got to be ebullient is one of the words that's used to describe me, essentially. Ebullient. So it's like another way of saying, yeah, enthusiastic.

0:15:08 - (Kate Davis): And I like that. Yeah, just learned a new word.

0:15:12 - (Russell Harvey): See, there you go.

0:15:13 - (Kate Davis): It's in your English language. Are you finding, you find that it really, if you inject humor into those situations when you're dealing with someone who's so closed. When you're coaching them, do you find it helps open them up and, and like, what happens if they're just so res. Have you had that happen where people are just so closed off that it's hard to get to them?

0:15:43 - (Russell Harvey): Absolutely, yes.

0:15:44 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:15:45 - (Russell Harvey): And then, so then it's about, again, the respect of who they are as an individual. So I'll go back to the strength, scope, psychometric. So, so there are 24 strengths and they. You can be. It's about this word energy. And people take the psychometric and identify the significant seven. And so if I am aware from that, that an individual is going to be a bit more internalized and reserved, then I utilize that a little bit more to, you know, see it from their point of view, to empathize with them, to try and then draw them out, you know, essentially and add it with an individual. A few weeks ago we were talking about how them. And it was a family situation, so how them and their wife behave differently in certain circumstances.

0:16:36 - (Russell Harvey): And then I said, and I said, I'm just, I'm just guessing, but from your strengths profile, you given the example of like, this happened in the home and your wife acted like this and you acted like this. So it's like if I was a fly on the wall. What I think you did was X, Y, Z, A, B, C, and you behaved like this. And as I was part way through saying, I think that's going on, he started to laugh and he started, he says, gosh, it's almost as if you were there.

0:17:03 - (Russell Harvey): That's, that's. And then my wife came to me later and said, and she's like, oh, God. I said, well, you know, I was guessing a bit, but somebody that's got these strengths quite often in these situations, this is their standard approach. And he went, yeah, that's brilliant. That's just exactly how I was. Ah, right. That makes more sense now. So that's how I managed to make it work in that instance.

0:17:30 - (Kate Davis): It's amazing that it's that predictable. Yes, yes, that's amazing. Like human nature itself, you know, the commonality I find when people are using humor. Don't. And the energy, I mean, that you were talking about within their teams, I find it always starts at the top and trickles down.

0:17:50 - (Russell Harvey): Yes, it does, it does. My. I've had other instances though too, Kate, to go, well, based upon your profile, I think maybe this is what happened and the individual's got a stony face and go, that's not what happened. At all, Russell. And I go, okay, you tell me, what did happen? So, you know, most.

0:18:09 - (Kate Davis): Does it make sense?

0:18:11 - (Russell Harvey): Yes, it does. Yeah. It absolutely does make sense. Yeah.

0:18:14 - (Kate Davis): What benefits have you personally found when you've used humor in your coaching styles?

0:18:20 - (Russell Harvey): So I suppose it's the feedback that you get. You know, I had a nice comment, actually, from a coaching client some years ago. And what was. What was the comment? It was really nice. He says. He says, I never. I don't. I go. I go really deep with you, Russell. That was their feedback. I have deeper, deeper conversations with you than I have anybody else. And some of them are a bit dark. He says you make them light.

0:18:49 - (Russell Harvey): So it's like they're dark conversations, but you make them light. And I think that's because with the sort of. The playfulness with which I did it. So that was just some lovely feedback to get from somebody around. Actually, these are things I've not spoken about before, but the way in which I've spoken about them actually didn't felt good. Felt okay, which was really nice.

0:19:11 - (Kate Davis): It just really opens people up. It's. I feel like I could share anything with you.

0:19:18 - (Russell Harvey): Cool. Thank you.

0:19:19 - (Kate Davis): Turns into a therapy session. You're like, I need.

0:19:22 - (Russell Harvey): Well, Kate, what is it that you would like?

0:19:26 - (Kate Davis): I need to charge you for this podcast. Guess not at all encounter any, like, misinterpretations when you've tried to use humor with your clients?

0:19:37 - (Russell Harvey): Oh, yeah. Yeah. Loads of times. Sometimes. So sometimes it's been cultural, so different cultures. And so. And then. So. So then I. Afterwards, I will talk about that, either whether a friend or a colleague or my coaching supervisor. And I'm laughing because I'm going, oh, this happened. And I was in the midst of it, and I could feel that it was a total disaster that was just happening in front of me.

0:20:05 - (Russell Harvey): And then other times when we had worked it out what the miscommunication was, then suddenly there's a big burst of laughter as everybody understands what's gone wrong.

0:20:16 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:20:16 - (Russell Harvey): Essentially around it. But, yeah, there are times when you can just say, we're gonna have to just leave it, because I can see that this is not working. There's no way. It's just. We need to stop because it's literally there. Yeah. We need to take a breather because this isn't working.

0:20:32 - (Kate Davis): Yeah. It's like. It's so funny because whenever I think of resilience, I think of, you know, someone's had the shit kicked out of them. How do we get through it? Right. And there's so much more to it, especially when you're in a leadership role.

0:20:47 - (Russell Harvey): Totally. Yeah, yeah.

0:20:49 - (Kate Davis): You know, it's. It's people's livelihoods, but it's not only that. It's their families and their children, you know, and it just. The real effect of that is huge.

0:20:58 - (Russell Harvey): And that's what I. Sorry, I didn't mean to talk over you. I was getting enthusiastic again. But that's what I really want people to understand when they listen to me and others talk about resilience. That part of the resiliency piece is about recovery from life's events, but it's also, they don't have to be always be negative. So this, this word adverse. And somebody came to me, so it was a lady, and there's a reason I'm mentioning that gender came to me when I said, you know, does an adverse event need to be negative? And I went, no, no, no, it doesn't. So tell me more what you mean. She says, well, I was not part of my life plan and I absolutely didn't want it. But recently, in the last few years, became pregnant, had a child, and it was incredible, and it was wonderful. But it's like, is that an adverse event? And I went, yeah, it is, you know, but she says, it's not bad.

0:21:48 - (Russell Harvey): It was brilliant. It was just unexpected, you know, so an adverse event is something that you have to recover from. But. But I'm of the view of leaders, humans taking the choice to grow and build their resilience day to day so that they can face into life's events. It's like, unfortunately, we don't know how resilient we are until something unpleasant happens. And I'm of the view, why wait? You know, just start engaging and growing your resilience now?

0:22:21 - (Kate Davis): Because how is that. How do you grow resilience with. Well, you give us an example.

0:22:26 - (Russell Harvey): Well, yeah. So based upon research. So not. Not a plug. It's just an answer to your question, Kate. So on. On my website, there's the resilience wheel. Seven aspects to it. And when an individual makes the choice to engage with their wheel day to day, week by week, in a way that they find interesting, enjoyable, they will be building and growing their resilience. So how they then face into life is from a very different perspective.

0:22:53 - (Russell Harvey): So this it. And, and yeah. So seven aspects of the wheel built.

0:22:57 - (Kate Davis): Upon reason is humor within that. Is there any.

0:23:00 - (Russell Harvey): So it's not a specific or. It's not a specific part of it, but there's, there's one aspect of the Wheel, which is about, which is called meaning, which is about our internal storytelling. So this is where there's the opportunity to put humor into your storytelling. So this is about the meaning that we attach to events. So if I ask you, how was your day, Kate? You'll give me an answer? Yeah. And it might include things of like so on as a ridiculous example. It might be, well, Russell, I woke up this morning and, you know, went on a car journey and it went downhill from there. And everybody I spoke to it was miserable and horrible. So I just think I'm useless.

0:23:41 - (Russell Harvey): So you have attached that meaning to that moment and that muscle memory. So you pause and you think about, okay, if I was to explore that day again, how might I legitimately, realistically be able to actually pull some things apart? And if something unpleasant happened, then it's thick. Then you would think about, okay, so what if I was gonna turn this into a humorous story? How might I, you know, and that'll be different for everybody. So it's probably the meaning aspect where you could do your internal storytelling and add in humor to it.

0:24:16 - (Kate Davis): I love that. I literally, I just went through a thing. And you're gonna, you're gonna get this because as a speaker, I had a pre event call for the company to decide if they were going to take me.

0:24:28 - (Russell Harvey): Yes.

0:24:28 - (Kate Davis): And I wasn't at home. I was staying at a friend's. And as soon as I got on the zoom, of course the dog starts barking. I put the dog on the porch. Then all of a sudden, someone starts weed whacking outside the window. And I'm like, are you freaking kidding me? And then all of a sudden, my friend who's just playing starts to, like, do a fake strip tease in front of me. And I'm trying to concentrate, right? But I'm sort of giggling and all I'm thinking. And I get off the call. I can't. I can't keep my thoughts straight.

0:25:03 - (Kate Davis): I'm like, I'm at this point, I'm like giggling but upset. Like, I just blew like a gig for money. I'm like. And then I'm so traumatized, I phone a friend. I'm like, I need to practice my pitching because I should be able to get this no matter what's going on in front of me. And then they were supposed to, like, phone me on the Monday and let me know. Monday comes nothing, Tuesday comes nothing. I'm like, I lost the gig.

0:25:31 - (Kate Davis): And then Wednesday afternoon, they get a hold of me. We love you. We want to book you. I spent Five days in my head today, beating myself up for. So what's going on in your head, really?

0:25:44 - (Russell Harvey): Well, what I take from that is you need that friend. They need to do the strip tease on every one of your calls, don't they? You know, can you factor that into your rates and say you need to pay a little bit extra?

0:25:57 - (Kate Davis): Because I almost, like, just turned the computer around saying, look at what I'm dealing with. Look. Anyway, it was. I was really traumatized and that I was fine. I was like, why? Why? We just. The story in our head, a lot of times isn't the story that's going on.

0:26:17 - (Russell Harvey): Absolutely, absolutely.

0:26:19 - (Kate Davis): And staying positive and. And revisiting that. I love that. What you said. To really play with that.

0:26:26 - (Russell Harvey): Yeah. What. So within there. So of. It's. It's the word optimistic, I talk about more rather than positive. Okay. As a. As a means to get into feeling positive. So the reason I really highlight this is I absolutely do not want anybody to do toxic resilience or toxic positivity.

0:26:47 - (Kate Davis): Oh, what does that mean?

0:26:49 - (Russell Harvey): Right. Yeah. So it's like, you know, you might legit as a leader, you might legitimately ask the room full of people in team, you know, how are things? What's going on? And one of your members, he might say, well, I'm a little bit worried about this, or I'm finding this challenging. If the leader then initially goes, so you just need to be resilient and you just need to be positive. You know, actual finger pointing, it's like, don't do that.

0:27:14 - (Russell Harvey): Don't do that at all. Okay. It is more about listening and empathizing with a person's concerns because optimism is grounded in reality. So we have to talk about the reality of the size and the scale of the challenge, but talk about it in a way. And it takes a lot of emotional intelligence and compassion and empathy and other skills, Kate, to be able to do this. But you have. You have to have the conversation which ground in reality about. If somebody's really worried about the size and the scale of the challenge, you need to talk about it and listen and hear it. But what is also grounded in reality simultaneously is what's good about us, what's right about us, our strengths, our skills, our behaviors, our attitudes, our resilience, our experiences.

0:28:00 - (Russell Harvey): And when you talk about those a little more and they're more imbalanced, then people feel hope and they feel positive. So you. You get to positive in a. In a slightly different way, and it is. It is more real.

0:28:15 - (Kate Davis): I love that you're welcome. That is so great. And that's something you can really take to every aspect of your life.

0:28:26 - (Russell Harvey): Yeah, it is, it is, it is. And it does take an artfulness to be able to sort of. Because we don't necessarily want to go there at times, or we have to be prepared.

0:28:35 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:28:36 - (Russell Harvey): So, yeah, it does take practice, and it takes a real suite of skills to hold an optimistic conversation. Well, essentially.

0:28:44 - (Kate Davis): Wow. Amazing. I love this conversation. Okay, so we're. We're just starting to wrap it up, and I always love to end Humor in the C suite with this question. What is the funniest thing that's ever happened to you?

0:28:58 - (Russell Harvey): The funniest thing that's ever happened to me. E. Golly gosh. There's so many to choose from. I think it's like, what do I want to share? What do I want to share, essentially? I think. Well, yeah, it is. It is that one. At the. @ the conference of taking, you're still wired up when you go to the toilet.

0:29:27 - (Kate Davis): Oh.

0:29:29 - (Russell Harvey): And, you know, the. And the conference hears it, essentially, and you come back on, and it's like there's an awful lot of, you know, noise and murmuring and facial expressions and funny things. So I'm still feel embarrassed about it now, but it is also.

0:29:46 - (Kate Davis): So you went to pee with the mic on and.

0:29:49 - (Russell Harvey): Yeah. Yes. Yes.

0:29:51 - (Kate Davis): Gosh, I have so much enjoyed our conversation. I really have. Thank you so much for being a guest on Humor in the C suite. I. I feel like this has been such a different take on it. Good to really look at the optimistic by the positive psychology and the resiliency that it builds and all your wisdom over your years. I've just really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.

0:30:18 - (Russell Harvey): Thank you for having me on. And I've loved it too, so thank you very much.