Tariq Munir: Cross Border Humor

In this engaging episode of "Humor in the C Suite," host Kate Davis invites Tariq Munir to share his insights on leveraging humor in leadership roles. Tariq, with his profound experience in digital transformation and finance, explains how humor has been a pivotal element in his journey from a conventional finance role to a dynamic advisor and keynote speaker. Their conversation sheds light on the significance of humor in reducing workplace stress, fostering team collaboration, and enhancing productivity.

Key Takeaways:

• Humor is an essential skill for leaders, as it humanizes them and fosters a collaborative and productive work environment.
• Cultural sensitivity is crucial when incorporating humor across global teams to prevent misunderstandings and foster stronger team bonds.
• Tariq Munir emphasizes the importance of not taking oneself too seriously, even when navigating significant technological transformations like AI.
• Self-deprecating humor can be an effective tool in the C suite, helping to diffuse tension and communicate messages more effectively.
• Leaders should strive to create authentic connections with their teams, embracing humor to enhance teamwork and morale.

"Try to take things a little lightly. At the end of the day, we spend a major part of our lives working, so you might as well have some fun along the way."

Additional Links & Resources:

• Interested in being a guest on Humor in the C-Suite? Reach out to book a call with Kate!
• Learn more about me and my work at katedavis.ca

Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Humor in the C-Suite! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow the podcast, share it with your friends, and leave a rating or review. Your support helps the podcast continue to grow. 

Hosted by Kate Davis
Edited by Chris @ Wider View Studios

Transcript

0:00:03 - (Kate Davis): Hello, I'm Kate Davis and this is Humor in the C Suite, a show about how leaders use humor to create an extraordinary work culture. Hi everyone and welcome to this week's episode of Humor in the C Suite. My guest this week is Tarek Manier. He is a Chartered Accountant certified in Digital Transformation from Stanford Graduate School of Business and a certified Data Science Professional from IBM. He is a seasoned digital and AI transformation advisor who has guided numerous business leaders in navigating and leading transformative change.

0:00:36 - (Kate Davis): With over 20 years of experience working with Fortune 500 companies, he has contributed across diverse domains such as finance, integrated business planning, supply chain, advanced analytics, and digital transformation. Okay, that might sound really nerdy and boring, but he had an amazing conversation. Tarek brings deep expertise in crafting digital strategies, leading large scale and complex digital transformation initiatives and driving the resulting organizational change.

0:01:07 - (Kate Davis): His thought leadership in AI, data and digital transformation reaches a global audience through his international keynote speaking and he is a corporate trainer and a top voice on LinkedIn. I could go on and on, but most importantly, he is also the upcoming author of Reimagine Finance, a CFO's leadership playbook for leading in the age of data, AI and digital. Oh my God, we had the best conversation.

0:01:34 - (Kate Davis): He is a great sense of humor and he was so insightful. You guys are going to love it. So please welcome Tarek Manir. What? I love your story. You have done so much and you were so interesting. So I thought we would just start off by telling everyone or having you tell your story, how you got to be where you are and what you're doing now.

0:01:59 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah. Thanks, Kate. So I started off pretty much my professional life as like, as a typical finance guy, accountant. So I did my, you know, professional qualifications. Typical, you know, how you to start off with generally a consulting firm. So I started off with big four PwC. Then from there on I went on to working with Exonobel and then I moved into PepsiCo. So pretty much I have been mostly been working in the finance space, mostly looking after the corporate finance, financial planning, pretty much every role out there you can possibly think of in a finance space, I would have pretty much done that.

0:02:42 - (Tariq Munir): But over the past few years, I would say around five to seven years, I have been having sort of an awakening, I would say, with all the technology changes happening around me and you know, whatever, wherever I look, there is and there is, you know, now as they say, whatever you do, there is an AI agent for that. So it started to actually feel like that, you know, whenever I would look at A process. Whenever I would look at any workflow, any work that I'm doing, it was like, you know, there is automation is going to impact that or was already impacted impacting it.

0:03:15 - (Tariq Munir): So I decided to sort of get myself into it, started to get a little bit more curious, started to understand what technology is all about, how AI, data, digital transformation, how it is impacting the businesses, business processes and workflows and so on, so forth. And I would say I was so excited and fascinated by this pace that I then ended up pretty much my, pretty much my career moved into an entirely different direction. So I started working on digital transformation, finance transformation and so on, so forth. So long story short, I then pretty much started to build myself, build my brand around that, build my profile around.

0:04:03 - (Tariq Munir): I don't call myself an expert expert because you know, again, there is so much that I need to learn whenever I feel like, feel like. In fact I say that whenever I feel like that I'm an expert, I start reading a book which makes me very humble. That's a humbling experience for me. So, so I mean, you get the point, right? So I was trying to, you know, build my profile around that, build my thought leadership in that area and which was working out well. So from there on I started to put myself out there. I took a leap of faith and for the first time in my life three years ago, I decided to, you know, just jump on a stage and give a talk to a room full of 300 people.

0:04:43 - (Tariq Munir): And afterwards I pretty much realized that, you know, okay, maybe this is the thing I would really love doing for a living as well. So from there on I started to build my. It was like a sort of a passion that I found or a purpose that I found eventually. So I started to, you know, develop myself in that area as well. Again related to AI, related to transformation, related to digital space. Started to build my public speaking skills around that, then training, then training skills followed around that and I was doing a lot of content creation, mostly on LinkedIn and for some other publications as well.

0:05:20 - (Tariq Munir): And then I decided I thought okay, you know, I might have too much content, so maybe it will be good enough for a book. So why not then create an outline and start thinking about a book. So I, you know, just pulled out a mind mapping kind of a tool and then I just started to mind map. Okay, you know, if I were to write a book, what will it look like? What will be the different areas I will cover? And I soon realized that after a while working on that mind map for a Couple of days, I would say over a peak, over a period of, I think couple of weeks.

0:05:55 - (Tariq Munir): I realized that there was actually a book shipping out. So I was like, okay, sure, why not? And then I started to write about it and started to write and eventually I then pasted to some publishers and I got a good, I was lucky to publishing my book. So it was again about digital transformation, but mostly specific to finance as well. So yeah, it has been a very exciting, very rewarding journey so far. I cannot.

0:06:22 - (Kate Davis): I love that your curiosity has built this as well.

0:06:25 - (Tariq Munir): Yes.

0:06:26 - (Kate Davis): You can't take yourself that seriously if you're going to stay curious.

0:06:31 - (Tariq Munir): Absolutely.

0:06:31 - (Kate Davis): Like a bit of fun. So I love that. Let's go back to when you were, you know, with these big Fortune 500 companies and you're dealing with a lot of people. You know, we're humor in the C suite. You seem like you're a lot of fun. We just met. But how did you use humor within your teams and, and did you find that it helped like with team collaboration and stuff like that?

0:06:56 - (Tariq Munir): Oh, absolutely, Kate. I believe if there is, there is one thing that keeps us going, right. And which humanizes us, that's humor. Because again, at the end of the day when we are working in an environment where we have a lot of pressure to deliver deadlines and you have, there's a never a dull moment in your life. So. And you practically cannot do much. Right? That's the reality, right. If there are deadlines, there are deadlines. If there are projects, there are deliverables, there are deliverables. You can't really do it, do some, do anything about it.

0:07:37 - (Tariq Munir): But I believe when you create a bit of a lighter environment within your team, that helps a lot and it has helped me quite a lot. And to be, to be very frank, it's not just the team's environment where it has helped me, it has also helped me. I carried that with me in my keynotes, in my talks, in my training and that helped me a lot there as well because again, some of the topics I talk about, they're not really very user friendly.

0:08:09 - (Kate Davis): Financial AI.

0:08:11 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah, so. So, so for example, I mean, I remember like, I mean when I was, I was even working in, in my old consulting days, now I'm like, I have a new life of consulting where I'm doing my own consulting work. But when I was working with, with the big four, I mean we would have very tight timelines and we would be literally be spending our whole nights in the office. Right. So I mean it was it was inevitable that we would. And we would have a lot of fun, right?

0:08:45 - (Tariq Munir): We would have a lot of fun. We would, we would, you know, do a bit of, you know, leg pulling of each other. Like, I mean, just, you know, pulling each other's. Pulling each other. No, sorry, not leg pulling. Pulling each other's leg.

0:08:58 - (Kate Davis): I work all night or I'm overtired. I get the giggles always coming.

0:09:05 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah, so, so, so, yeah, it has always helped me, me soften the, soften the environment, make. Keep it, keep it light. People then see you as a human as well. People then see you. People can relate it to you. They can think of you not as a manager, not just as someone who is, you know, trying to get the work done. They, and they, they, they humanize you.

0:09:27 - (Kate Davis): Yeah, well, they say it's such a soft skill, but to me it's a necessary skill. Right. Because it kept the team going. It kept the team believing in what they were doing and getting it done. So I think, yeah, I think that's amazing. Do you, so are you still, so you're still incorporating humor into your leadership styles and all that?

0:09:48 - (Tariq Munir): Oh, absolutely, yeah.

0:09:51 - (Kate Davis): Are you find the effectiveness? Like, do you notice when you go into companies that aren't using humor that do take themselves too seriously?

0:10:04 - (Tariq Munir): I think there are a lot of people out there who take themselves too seriously. We have created our corporate cultures or just the corporate environment has created this sort of a facade that if we are serious all the time, if we are taking that seriousness and you know, are hard working as a badge of honor, or if we are a little bit too getting too easy with the rest of the people, we might give away or we will become vulnerable or we might give away quite a few things, which is not.

0:10:40 - (Tariq Munir): In other words, we will let our guard down. Yeah, that's, that's not, that's not right. And, and it happens. I have seen, seen that happening, happening as well, where some leaders, you know, they are very much onto on the dot. They just want to get things done. And like, I mean, in the past, in some past life, I have worked with some, some, some people as well who would be like, you know, not again. You know, I mean, nothing against them, of course, it's just their management style, but it is just that, you know, humor was not part of their style.

0:11:14 - (Tariq Munir): Right. Yeah, so it does happen. And, but again, I don't blame anyone for that. The reason being, again, humor is again, a kind of a skill. You need to develop that intentionally over a period of time and based on the circumstances where you are, where, how would you. So for example, the humor that I would do, so I moved from Pakistan to Australia like 10 years ago. The humor that I would do with my team in Pakistan was different than the humor that I would deem with my team in Australia because it's a, culturally, it's a very different.

0:11:54 - (Tariq Munir): And I'll be very honest with you, in the beginning, for the first six months, I had a bit of a. Cultural shocks, right. When it came to humor. Because I would use a lot of humor. I would be like, you know, sort of a person who would just go in and, you know, I mean, just, just say something to some, something to someone. Right. Without even thinking.

0:12:12 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:12:13 - (Tariq Munir): And then I realized, no, maybe not. That's not a good idea. Just start thinking.

0:12:20 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:12:20 - (Tariq Munir): So, so I learned over that. But then over the period of time, you know, I learned that, okay, this is not the way I should be doing the humor here. Right. There's a different cultural sensitivities again. I mean, you know, in, in, in, in the environment I'm working on, I have people from like 20 different nationalities, different ethnicities, different backgrounds. Everyone can take different things differently.

0:12:42 - (Tariq Munir): So what a lot of people do, a lot of leaders do, they resort to the easy path, which is not going for humor. Right, right. Not doing it.

0:12:52 - (Kate Davis): Because then, you know, you find that, that middle line between being yourself, using your sense of humor that you would when you were in Pakistan to finding that connection and that humor in Australia with your team.

0:13:08 - (Tariq Munir): I would say it was bit of a hit and trial in the beginning.

0:13:11 - (Kate Davis): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:13:14 - (Tariq Munir): So I mean, again, you know, you have to, you have to take, you have to take a leap of faith in different, different scenarios. So it was a little bit of, in the beginning, I, I did move cautiously, I would say, because I did realize that there are a lot of things which you can, which can go backfire if you are not using humor. Seriously, people might think of it in a different context, in a different environment.

0:13:43 - (Tariq Munir): So it's all about just being aware of your team's little bit of cultural and getting a little bit closer to them. So my, my initial time here was all about getting close to my co workers, getting close to my team. Just understand what they are, who they are like. Yes, they are like finance managers or for example, they are commercial managers and they are supply chain managers. But who are they actually like? Who are they exactly? What do they, what do they like? What do they dislike?

0:14:14 - (Tariq Munir): What is the kind of humor? What are the kind of things that they discuss when you know they're laughing, what are the things that they are actually laughing about when you know. Because again, you know, if you are. If you are hanging out with friends in a. Even in a work environment, you need to know what you are talking about, what you are laughing about. Right. I mean, if it is something which I cannot get at all because it is a daily different cultural context or the way they. They have the information they have been exposed to throughout their lives, I might not have been exposed to at all. So it, for me might be nothing, but for them, it might be very funny. So again, it's about a little. It's a little bit of effort, but I think it's. It's an effort which is. Well put.

0:14:55 - (Tariq Munir): It is a rewarding effort at the end of the day.

0:14:58 - (Kate Davis): Really brave of you to just be yourself, you know, look at. Because leaders, you know, I. I'd say 20 years ago, you know, ran with an iron, you know, ram their companies with an iron fist.

0:15:11 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah.

0:15:11 - (Kate Davis): And what the best leaders know is they don't need to be the most authoritative in the room. They need to be the most relatable and 100. Yeah. And I feel like that's what you were doing when you were just trying to be yourself. But culturally, I, I found with many leaders on the podcast, because they are dealing with, you know, different. Different locations within their companies across the world, globally, that it's.

0:15:36 - (Kate Davis): It is culturally, you have to be sensitive to that. So I love that, and I love that you found your team and your voice in that, which I find fascinating. You know, you didn't give up your leadership style. You just, you adjusted it and. And there's room for that. So how do you. What do you think in terms of productivity? Do you find it really leads to more, like a more. More cohesive team, obviously leads to more productivity, but are there examples of how you use humor?

0:16:10 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah, exactly. So. So I would, for example, in. In a lot of. So I remember once we, you know, went out on this team, kind of team offside. Right.

0:16:27 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:16:27 - (Tariq Munir): And I was. We were playing this, you know, mini golf, where you put. Put on mini golf. Right. So I ended. I somehow won. And, you know, that was something which I was. I then kept on bragging about a lot in a quite a funny way, which was very relatable to the team. So team was like, you know, really, they sort of, you know, I was trying to get a little bit cocky and. And they knew that I was, you know, being cocky, and they knew that I was just.

0:16:56 - (Tariq Munir): Just being Fun being, being funny and having fun with them.

0:16:59 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:17:00 - (Tariq Munir): So that was the time when I actually moved into, I was given this new role. I moved into that entirely new space. I had no, not a lot of connection with the team who was already there. They were, they have been working in the team for a while and for me to connect with them, it was very important that I find that sort of foot in the door, for the lack of better words maybe, or, you know, something, something to get to become more relatable. Yeah, right.

0:17:38 - (Tariq Munir): So that was that one instance, one event where we, where we really made a quite. I made quite a big fuss off of being, you know, really winning that and you know, pretty much, you know, being boasting of that in every possible way I could and in every possible meeting in everywhere. So I mean, it created a lot of open, kind of a relatable and open kind of an environment between us. And I believe that one off site really helped. And this was just one thing, right? I mean there were a lot of other things, a lot of other fun things that we did, a lot of other things that had humor in it, so.

0:18:15 - (Tariq Munir): Which helped me a lot in getting onboarded with the team, you know, and build a sort of a trust with the team as well. Because when you people see you as a human, they start trusting you as well, right? A little bit more.

0:18:27 - (Kate Davis): Absolutely. And I love that we call that in Canada because when we play games, we shit talk each other.

0:18:34 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So I was shit talking, I was shit talking with my team and they just loved it. I mean, we all loved it. Right.

0:18:43 - (Kate Davis): So funny. I do it, we do it with our family. Like on my birthday, every year on my birthday, I play games like old school, egg on a spoon, three legged pieces, like. And I just see all my friends, all my family become these little kids again, you know, and then all of a sudden everyone's, you know, they drop their guards. It's a great pressure valve and it does, it makes you a part of the team and you know, and now you get to gloat about being the mini pup champion of the world.

0:19:17 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:19:20 - (Kate Davis): It's a win, win for everyone.

0:19:21 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah.

0:19:22 - (Kate Davis): But just that playfulness and going offside and changing it up can be so important. And you can also attach that to a charity, you know, like the best team gets to contribute to this. So I find it's a feel good thing for everyone. But I love that making yourself human for your team is so important and especially when you're coming in and they're already a team and you're having to join them. So I think that's really important.

0:19:52 - (Kate Davis): Hi, it's Kate. I can't believe you made it halfway through the show. Look, if you or anyone you know would like to be a guest on Humor in the C Suite, I would love to have you, so email me. Kate Davis, ca. Do you have any advice for leaders that, you know, who, who are coming into that environment or, you know, are. There's a lot of pressure nowadays. The world's a crap show. So, like, you know, when leaders are dealing with supply chains, which I know is something you've always dealt with and with those companies or part of it anyway, how would you. Do you have advice for leaders in that?

0:20:35 - (Tariq Munir): I would, I would. Again, I mean, no, we can never take out the seriousness of situation. Of course. Right. I mean, that is, of course there. If there is a business problem, there is a business problem. But if we really unpack those things at the end of the day, as long as someone is, you know, intentionally sabotaging something, then yes, that's not, that's probably a different story. But if it is like, for example, if it is like a geopolitical situation. Right. Which is impacting your business or something, which is impacting your business. Yes. There is no denial that, yes, there are things which are happening, but at the end of the day, it's humans who are running these machine, this corporate machine, and for them to run that machine effectively, they need to be treated as humans. Right. So that's the basics of it. Right.

0:21:32 - (Tariq Munir): And one way of doing is to. While you are doing it, why not have some fun on the way? Because at the end of the day, it is going to get done. Right. So, for example, I would have, I would have a lot of pressure situations where I need to deliver a project, for example, and, you know, I'd only have two weeks and something happened totally out of, out of, out of our control and we were just not able to like, delivering the project became a question mark or, you know, there were no delays in the project. Yes. We had to sort of course correct ourselves, sit together and you know, change our, change our plan of action.

0:22:16 - (Tariq Munir): But losing, sort of the easier way is to just lose your cool and then, you know, just let it, Let it out.

0:22:28 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:22:29 - (Tariq Munir): Which again, and I would say, I mean, I wouldn't say I've been like, you know, this forever. I have learned it over time. It's a skill, as I mentioned. Right. Which can be learned over time.

0:22:38 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:22:39 - (Tariq Munir): But it is again, about A lot about how as a leader you are able to handle the pressure. So I sometimes call that, you know, leaders are like sponges. So they need to take on a lot of pressure and then, you know, just, you know, trickle down the enough that team can. Teams can take. And one way that those leaders do not burn out themselves as well is also to ensure that, you know, they are having fun while they are doing it.

0:23:09 - (Tariq Munir): So just try to take things a little bit lightly. Try to have fun in what you are trying to do. At the end of the day, we end, we end up spending a major part of our lives, like the real lives, working, right? So we would, we would, we would if, if, you know, if in seven days, five days we are not having fun and then we are just having fun on two days. I think we need to rethink our, as I call the word reimagine our definition of entertainment and fun. Right? So maybe, you know, building those authentic connections at work where you can actually have fun.

0:23:52 - (Tariq Munir): Where you can actually. Because again, humor. I know, I mean humor. I say fun. When I say fun, I mean, you know, through humor. Yeah, yeah. Levity. Exactly, exactly.

0:24:02 - (Kate Davis): Your humor, your sense of humor or your levity. Gauge change. If you were dealing with other people within the C suite, then your team.

0:24:11 - (Tariq Munir): Yes, it does, it does, it does.

0:24:14 - (Kate Davis): How would you, how would you change it or how.

0:24:16 - (Tariq Munir): So, So I mean with the team, I would say it is a little bit more relaxed. Of course. Right? You can, you can. I mean again, my leadership style is more of like, you know, bit of an open as well. So if I would, I would say something which, you know, someone would feel like, okay, you know, it's a bit of a sarcasm so someone will, you know, just return the favor right away and I wouldn't mind, right. That I would like. Yeah, thanks for returning the favor. Right. So it's great. Like it's like a two way kind of a thing.

0:24:48 - (Tariq Munir): When you are in a C suite environment, when you are presenting some. Most of the times you will be presenting something or you will be discussing a point, right? So you do not have this. And you should not be using sarcasm pointed at someone, right? Because that becomes a very, there's a very thin line between, you know, becoming rude or being, you know, seen as non professional or something or just lax, right.

0:25:15 - (Tariq Munir): So it's important that the, the humor stays very objective. Objective in a sense. So for example, if I would be presenting something, I would either deprecate myself a little bit self depreciating humor, right? Something like that. Or I would. I would just talk something about a number on the slide or, you know, something like, you know, yeah, here is the table with numbers. Because we all love numbers and things like that. I mean, you know, of course, depending upon the situation.

0:25:49 - (Kate Davis): Such an accountant. We all love numbers.

0:25:53 - (Tariq Munir): So I used to do that. So I would, I would show the, show the slide with, With. With a lot of. With, you know, those typical slides which would have a lot of numbers in it. And I would like, if, if anyone was missing those. This slide. Here it is. Here is yours. I mean, here is that slide everyone loves. I know. So. So I mean, that kind of a humor, right. Which is generally very, you know, innocuous kind of a humor is not pointed at someone.

0:26:18 - (Tariq Munir): In a team environment, you have a little bit more depending upon what's your level of comfort with the team. It can, you know, cross a little bit. It can get a little bit, you know, you can cross a few. A few things here or there.

0:26:30 - (Kate Davis): Absolutely.

0:26:30 - (Tariq Munir): And it doesn't, it doesn't. It doesn't mind as long as, of course, you know, you are also willing to take on the humor as well. Right. So, I mean, if someone.

0:26:39 - (Kate Davis): Baby. Got it. Yeah, yeah. But I love that what you said about sarcasm.

0:26:45 - (Tariq Munir): You.

0:26:45 - (Kate Davis): You hit the nail on the head because. And I was talking to a person in the C suite, and he's like, all my whole sense of humor is sarcastic. And I was like, well, good luck with that, because it always feels like you're punching down, you know.

0:27:00 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah, yeah.

0:27:01 - (Kate Davis): When you're sarcastic. So it's, it's interesting watching him, you know, having to navigate that. Although once everyone in the company really knew who he was, there was no problem because they knew that was a part of him.

0:27:14 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah.

0:27:15 - (Kate Davis): Right. So it's also. Know your audience, which I love you, you know, know that you can go a little further with your team. Who knows you better. Do you find that when you've been in those situations that you've actually. Like, do you feel like, like, what would you rank the importance of humor.

0:27:34 - (Tariq Munir): In. In. In what sense? Like in, in the C suite sense or generally.

0:27:37 - (Kate Davis): Yeah, and this suite sense, I think it's, It's, It's.

0:27:41 - (Tariq Munir): It's. It's critical. If I, If I could find a word which is better, which is at a higher level than critical. No, the reason, the reason being.

0:27:53 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:27:54 - (Tariq Munir): When you are, when, when you are with C suite and when you are with these, you know, executives, it is very easy to feel the pressure, just the pressure of the room because Again, there are so many decision makers and at the end of the day, there are so many executives sitting in one room. That room has a very different aura. Right. And if you are not, when you are using a little bit of very calculated humor, you are actually diffusing the tension in the room, number one.

0:28:32 - (Tariq Munir): And number two, it actually help you convey your message in a much more better way and you can actually command the room much more easily. Because then. Because see, again, humor requires a lot of confidence. Again, confidence in doing the right way, doing the humor in the right way. I mean, you can do any humor, but then it might not be the right way of doing humor, but doing the humor in the right way, using it in the right way requires a lot of confidence.

0:29:02 - (Tariq Munir): Because again, you know, it, you should be. Also situations where, you know, no one laughs at your humor. Right. No one gets it. So you should be confident that, okay, you know, if it happens, I should be. I'm willing to take that risk a little bit.

0:29:16 - (Kate Davis): It's a huge risk, you know, but it's worth it.

0:29:20 - (Tariq Munir): It's worth it.

0:29:20 - (Kate Davis): Worth the risk. And you know, like, if we're going to talk about confidence and, and the ability to take that risk, I think it's also in the best interest of the company that that's the culture that you're cultivating because it's, it's so stifling if it's not.

0:29:44 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah, yeah.

0:29:44 - (Kate Davis): You know, yeah. And. And these really old school companies. Look at my hair. Oh, these really old school companies that have been around forever. I love the fact they are changing.

0:29:56 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah.

0:29:57 - (Kate Davis): You know, and even the fact you've gone from being a chartered accountant to an AI expert, like the fact that you're always staying curious and, and you know, there's a lot to be said for changing careers midway and, or a few times and going, oh, I'm actually really interested in this. And I'm actually, you know, that to me is you having a sense of humor about yourself. It could work.

0:30:22 - (Tariq Munir): It couldn't.

0:30:23 - (Kate Davis): I'm gonna, I might have enough to write a book. Hey, I got a great publishing deal. Hey, I'm gonna be speaking. Hey, like it's, you know, it says I, I take myself, I take my work seriously, but I don't take myself too seriously.

0:30:37 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah, yeah.

0:30:39 - (Kate Davis): There's a big difference in that. I love this conversation. Okay. When you're doing your speaking and, and you're speaking about AI, thank God.

0:30:50 - (Tariq Munir): AI transformation.

0:30:51 - (Kate Davis): Write a joke.

0:30:53 - (Tariq Munir): Oh, yeah.

0:30:54 - (Kate Davis): Oh, no, we're not there yet.

0:30:56 - (Tariq Munir): We're not there.

0:30:56 - (Kate Davis): Yet I always go back because I was doing shows in Oslo and in Norway. And one of their biggest industries in like the 1600s, 1700s was ice. They used to ship ice everywhere. And then some jerk developed a freezer. And I, I sort of feel like I'm. I'm sort of feel so privileged that we have this sort of like bird's eye view of AI coming to be.

0:31:29 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah.

0:31:30 - (Kate Davis): And, and just like, you know, some sure jobs are going to change and we're going to think differently. I look at my, you know, my kids are older now, but I look at my, My, you know, nephew who's eight and he's a cyborg. He's always. I'm just like, wow, you're gonna think so differently than the way I grew up. You know, I just, I grew up roller skating and, you know. Yeah, my first Walkman, which was just.

0:32:02 - (Tariq Munir): Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:32:05 - (Kate Davis): It's just technology. And if we don't keep a sense of humor about how fast it's changing, I think that's when we'll be in trouble. Okay. So I always love to end the, the show by asking you, what is the funniest thing that's ever happened to you? Do you have a story you can tell?

0:32:24 - (Tariq Munir): So again, from, from. I mean, it's very hard to, you know, point out one funny moment. I mean, because again, you know, I use humor a lot regularly anyways, so it's like, it's like. And, and I, I generally like the humor, which is more extempore, you know, you are doing in a very serious situation and then you suddenly do a punch, create a punchline there with, you know, everyone start bursting out in laughter. So that is something.

0:32:53 - (Tariq Munir): But yeah, if, if I would really have to. There was once. We have this. Had this, you know, a situation. So it was, it was many, many years ago. We were in Pakistan at that time. So we were a team of like a couple of, you know, young accountants, auditors. We were doing audit of a company. So we used to go out for a walk in, you know, in a nearby. There was a park. So whenever we were tired, we just go out and walk. So someone, one of the interns there, he told us that, you know, there is this.

0:33:27 - (Tariq Munir): There, there. There are street vendors there who sell papa dumps with. With some weed kind of laced stuff in there. Right. So. So there is weed in there. So weed was of course illegal in Pakistan. So. So we were like, okay, yeah, yeah, we want to try maybe sometimes. Yeah. Anyway. Anyway, somehow, long story short, he ended up, you Know, having a couple of those. He found a person, he bought those, and he ended up having a couple of those.

0:33:53 - (Tariq Munir): We all came back. I mean, it was like, normal, light, okay, you know, nothing. Afterwards, he was working on something for a while, and he was very quietly working on his computer. And he was like, you know, too much into it. And, you know, we were like, okay, he's really, really into. What is he actually working on? He's just an intern. He doesn't have a lot to work on. And then suddenly he was started to, you know, sort of like, scream out, where's my work Gone? I couldn't save it. I couldn't save it. I couldn't save it. I think it's all gone. It's all gone.

0:34:21 - (Tariq Munir): And we came to his computer, and he was actually working on his. Trying to save something on the computer. And the computer was off. And we were like, you know, what were you doing? And he was actually working on his papers and just hitting control s all the time on the keyboard. And we were like, you know, we were like bursting in. Laugh, laugh. At that time, of course, it was more situational. So at that time, we were like. We were. We were crazy. And it stuck with me. So of course it was very funny at that time.

0:34:54 - (Tariq Munir): And we were like, I mean, seriously, you have been saving your paper files using control s on a keyboard? Like, you know, it was. It sounded really. It seemed really funny at that time. Maybe I haven't explained it in a. In a. A funnier way.

0:35:08 - (Kate Davis): No, no, I. You know what? And those are the bonding moments.

0:35:13 - (Tariq Munir): True.

0:35:14 - (Kate Davis): You always remember every time you see that person you're gonna go back to, your computer was off, buddy. No.

0:35:20 - (Tariq Munir): Yeah, it was like 10 years. Not 10 years ago. It's like, I'm talking about somewhere like 15 years ago. Right.

0:35:26 - (Kate Davis): And you still with me.

0:35:28 - (Tariq Munir): So how many things I remember from 15 years ago? Right. Not a lot, but humor that stucks. That.

0:35:33 - (Kate Davis): Exactly. Yeah. You're always brought back to that moment. And you know what? I always ask this question because people love retelling their funny stories, and it's a great way to connect with people that, you know, like, ask people. Everyone has their party story when we go into a party and, you know, you want to connect. So I always feel like it's a great way and I. I love it.

0:36:00 - (Tariq Munir): I. Oh, thank you.

0:36:01 - (Kate Davis): Really enjoyed our conversation.

0:36:03 - (Tariq Munir): Same here.

0:36:04 - (Kate Davis): So grateful for your time and so grateful for you sharing, you know, your. Your message and how AI is really transforming the world and that you can. We can have a sense of humor about it, so I. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

0:36:21 - (Tariq Munir): Definitely. Oh, definitely. No, thank you so much, Kate.