The Power of Asking the Right Questions with CEO Scott Burgmeyer

What happens in the silence when nobody laughs? That question sits at the heart of this conversation between Kate Davis and Scott Burgmeyer, founder and CEO of the Become More Group. Scott has spent over three decades moving through manufacturing, technology, HR, and consulting — and in all of it, he's learned that humor isn't decoration. It's infrastructure. Used well, it builds trust, opens people up, and makes it possible to have conversations that actually matter. Used carelessly, it collapses the very relationships it was meant to strengthen. This episode is about knowing the difference.

Key Topics Covered

Scott and Kate cover how humor functions as a pressure valve in high-stress environments and why that matters more than most leaders realize. They explore the five levels of trust and why humor only becomes truly available at levels three and four — when people feel safe enough to risk a little vulnerability. Scott speaks candidly about the loneliness that comes with being a CEO or business owner, the weight of decisions that affect people's livelihoods, and why humor can be one of the only tools that cuts through that isolation. Kate brings up dark humor in high-stakes professions — nurses, military, firefighters — and Scott digs into why it works, why it's powerful, and why it can never be targeted at a person. They also talk about how humor shifts depending on group size, how to use it to soften an uncomfortable message without losing credibility, and the critical difference between laughing at someone versus laughing about something.

Standout Quotes

"It's lonely as hell at the top. You're making decisions that impact the lives of everyone in the company — their families, their livelihoods. And who do you have to talk to?" — Scott Burgmeyer

"Your delivery is not allowing people to hear your message." — Scott Burgmeyer

"It's like going to the symphony and living in those moments of silence." — Kate Davis

"Take your work seriously. You don't have to take yourself too seriously." — Kate Davis

Scott's Advice for Leaders

Build a relationship first. Humor without trust is a gamble you'll often lose. Scott breaks trust down into five levels — and meaningful humor, the kind that actually opens people up, doesn't really become available until you're in levels three and four. Start small, test the waters, and pay close attention to how people respond. Know your audience — not because some people don't deserve humor, but because humor lands differently for everyone, and what works for one person can alienate another. And when it comes to dark humor specifically, it can be a genuine survival tool in high-pressure environments, but the moment it becomes targeted, it stops being humor and starts being harm.

Additional Links & Resources:

• Interested in being a guest on Humor in the C-Suite? Reach out to book a call with Kate!
• Learn more about me and my work at katedavis.ca

Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Humor in the C-Suite! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow the podcast, share it with your friends, and leave a rating or review. Your support helps the podcast continue to grow. 

Hosted by Kate Davis
Edited by Chris @ Wider View Studios

Transcript

0:00:03 - (Kate Davis): Hello, I'm Kate Davis and this is Humor in the C Suite, a show about how leaders use humor to create an extraordinary work culture. Hi everyone and welcome to this week's episode of Humor in the C Suite. My guest this week is Scott Bergmeyer. He is the founder and CEO Become More Group, which is a reflection of who Scott is. Scott's early career followed a very traditional path. Good first job, better second job, followed by a great corporate opportunity. And within a few years, that big corporate opportunity was pushing Scott out of his comfort zone.

0:00:36 - (Kate Davis): So the organization was content with his performance, but Scott wasn't. So he formed the Creative Solutions Group in 2010. Scott followed that up with the seed of desire for more with relentless curiosity, hard work, and eight years of personal discovery, growth and self development. That journey included roles in hr, safety, food safety, and continuous improvement. And included stints with a family owned business as well as rapid growth technology, Fortune 50 manufacturing and higher education organizations.

0:01:08 - (Kate Davis): In 2018, Scott harnessed all of that experience and focused full time on the Creative Solutions Group. In 2018, Scott Co authored the first of four books and continued Creative Solutions Group growth. In 2021, Scott, along with Tammy completed his first first corporate acquisition and their fifth book. And in 2023, Scott and Tammy formalized their merger and they became the became more Woo group. Oh my God. We had a great conversation.

0:01:42 - (Kate Davis): You guys are going to love them. And I love this episode because it's all about the moments of silence when we don't laugh. So it was really interesting for me. You guys are going to love our conversation and you're going to love Scott even more. Hello Scott, and welcome to Humor in the C Suite.

0:02:00 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Oh, good morning, Kate. I'm super happy to be here and I get to pretend that I'm funny because we're.

0:02:09 - (Kate Davis): Well, I love your story. I just thought we would just start off by telling our audience what you've done and what you're doing now. When you go through your bio, it's always like 2006 met Tammy. Like it's just so like genuine and loving and so I just, I just want everyone to know what you've done and what you're doing now.

0:02:30 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Boy, that, that's a big question. Now I think the highlights I usually talk about is I always joke that I, that I quote, grew up in manufacturing. I spent 30 years in manufacturing at big companies and small companies, spent a few years in technology and then had a chance to kind of really go full time in consulting. And, and I jokingly say, you know, I've worked in a lot of industries mostly because I apparently can't hold a job.

0:03:02 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And, and yeah, I met Tammy, my business partner. It has been, I mean, 20 some years ago and we each had our own company and we eventually got to this point where we were doing so much work together and we had a couple acquisitions where we said, you know, we're managing five brands. This is silly. Let's all put it under one. And that's how become more was kind of came.

0:03:26 - (Kate Davis): I love it. I. I was wondering, I was like, are they married? Are they just.

0:03:30 - (Scott Burgmeyer): No, we are not. Some people make that mistake and we both are like, ew. We're like brother and sister, right? She, she has her husband Michael. I have my wife Beth. And like, we both have been married like 30 years. So it's so funny to like, people are like, I think they're married. No. Yeah.

0:03:49 - (Kate Davis): No. My husband and I are 30 plus years now. And I joke. I was like, we used to run to bed to fool around. Now we run to bed to try and fall asleep. Oh, the other starts snoring. So, you know, times change. That's so funny. Okay, so great. Okay, so let's get into it. How do you use humor in your day to day life?

0:04:07 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah. What's funny? I, I love to think of myself as, as humorous. I mean, I am, I. Now I do have a little bit of dark humor. So I have to kind of manage that, apparently. No, you know, I think for me, I would say two ways. I will use it to lighten the mood, right. If, if things are. Seem to get a little tense, I will, I will do that. I suppose a psychologist would say maybe it's a defense mechanism, but I'm not a psychologist, so, you know, I can't, you know, I can't claim that. I don't know if that's true or not, you know, but most of the time it really is.

0:04:49 - (Scott Burgmeyer): I have found it is a way to just let off some steam, like lighten the mood. Like, let's chill out a little bit. Let's have a little chuckle. Seems to make time go a lot easier in my, from my perspective.

0:05:05 - (Kate Davis): It really does. It really is that pressure valve. And you know what? Dark humor, like, I find so many jobs that are really high pressure use a lot of dark humor, whether it's military, whether it's medical, you know, those are nurses, the darkest, craziest sense of humor. So I get that. And I love the fact you're using it in your leadership style. Have you, have you found that it really increases collaboration amongst teams when you're.

0:05:32 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah, it does. And I think, of course, you have to be mindful it can't be targeted humor where you're using it where, like as a. As a put down or a shot across the bow. Right. Like, yeah, if you don't have a strong relationship with that other person, like, humor is not going to be the best tour tool and it may actually cause more harm than good. So you do have to be mindful of that.

0:05:58 - (Kate Davis): Yeah. I think what you're saying is know your audience.

0:06:00 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah, yeah.

0:06:01 - (Kate Davis): Like, if you work, you know, you and Tammy can have that rapport, that back and forth. You work together for 30 years. Right, right. So I think, I think that's really great advice, you know, and, and really to always guys on the side of cautious. But at the same time, I just did a show for mill rights and, you know, they're machine guys. And I found a story where one of the millwrights, a machine broke down and, you know, everyone was like, time was passed. It wasn't like, you know, an hour or a shift. It was like 36 hours.

0:06:37 - (Kate Davis): And they couldn't get the part. And, you know, the factory was shut down and people weren't talking, weren't looking at each other anymore. And then one of the millwrights actually taped a cardboard piece, like a piece of cardboard to the machine and just said, trying to look busy until the part gets here. But then everyone started adding comments to it, like, still broken now. Emotionally broken. And like, it just kept going on. I mean, it didn't fix the part. They still had to wait.

0:07:05 - (Kate Davis): You know, the pressure was still there, but it released the tension. Yeah, right. And I think that's. That's very wise words from you. Can you give me an example, like, of a situation where you might have used humor and it did work.

0:07:18 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Oh, you know, I think I'm actually thinking of the group I was with yesterday. It's a group of executives. They're a newer executive team. And so they're just starting to come together and. And I asked a question, something about like our. How do you know you're working on the right things? You know, at your level? How do you know you're working on the right things? And they were all just like staring at me and I just looked and I, you know, I waited and I waited. I'm pretty comfortable in the silence.

0:07:50 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah. And you know, and waited and waited. And I'm like, okay, like, either I didn't ask the right question or like, I just like Peed in their Cheerios. And I said. And so I just, I just looked at him. I said, okay, so what I can't tell is you all are quiet. Are you thinking about it? Are you worried about what you're gonna say or, like, have you fallen asleep?

0:08:16 - (Kate Davis): Right.

0:08:18 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And they all kind of looked at me and they're like, oh, you're right. Like, we're a little embarrassed to say we don't want to say. And I'm like, well, hey, like, the first step is admitting it. Like, this is a 12 step program. Right. And we all had a good chuckle about it. And. And like, it got them to loosen up a little bit. And some of that is when you're a new team or and you're just trying to come together. It's like, do I really want to be vulnerable? Do I want to admit that to that person over there? I kind of don't know them are going to, Are they going to judge me?

0:08:47 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:08:47 - (Scott Burgmeyer): So I have found in some of those cases, you know, using a little humor can kind of soften it.

0:08:53 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:08:54 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And sometimes I may just like, point it at me.

0:08:57 - (Kate Davis): Yes. And for them to know that they're safe doing it. Yeah, they're safe. It's a safe space. They can be. They can take that risk. Right. They can start talking. So I love that, that you softened it for them and said, it's okay to be here. It's okay to make a mistake. And especially at that level, you know, the scrutiny, the eyes are always on them. And also you have that sort of juxtaposition where people are. Everyone's saying yes to them all the time when they're that high up. And I think to have someone say, okay, what do we really.

0:09:29 - (Kate Davis): Being amongst their peers can be terrifying, but also really inspiring that way.

0:09:34 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah.

0:09:35 - (Kate Davis): Yeah, I think that's, that's so great. And you know what? Like, just another thing about your bio is, you know, you left some cushy jobs to go on your own. Like, like, and that's brave. Like, that is brave. Like, a lot of people would stay there until the end, until the, you know, all the bonuses and everything else kicked in. And you're like, no, I'm gonna go on my own now.

0:09:57 - (Scott Burgmeyer): So I, Some of, some of the, some of the folks I started working with in my, in a. In my first manufacturing job, they got bought out. So they, they had early retirement packages two years ago. And I, and I told my wife, I'm like, oh, that could have been me. And then, and then all I could Think of is, what would I do then? Like, yeah, be retired. That sounds so weird to me.

0:10:25 - (Kate Davis): Yes, absolutely. I, I'm the same way. I'm just like, I feel like half the time I'm starting my career still, I'm like, what am I doing? Like, but it keeps.

0:10:37 - (Scott Burgmeyer): The reality is what. Once you think you're done, you are done.

0:10:41 - (Kate Davis): Yes.

0:10:42 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And if you have that in your mind, like, you. You're done. You're toast.

0:10:47 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:10:47 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And you hear so many stories about, well, I retired and I didn't. And I didn't have a plan or I didn't stay active. Whether that's physically active and. Or mentally active.

0:10:56 - (Kate Davis): Yes.

0:10:57 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Like it. Yeah. You know, I personally, I want a racehorse retirement. I want to be put out to stud, but my wife says, no way.

0:11:09 - (Kate Davis): I want to meet your wife. Do you find it really helps with collaboration?

0:11:18 - (Scott Burgmeyer): You know, I, again, I think it, to me, the, the precursor has to be some sort of relationship or a desire for a relationship. And then.

0:11:27 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:11:28 - (Scott Burgmeyer): That, that humor, I find it breaks down walls. We can joke about it. I mean, they, they have a problem and like.

0:11:36 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:11:37 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Can we joke about it? Is it too soon? Is it not too soon? Let's just.

0:11:40 - (Kate Davis): Yeah. Talk about that when you're coaching leaders.

0:11:45 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Oh, yeah. And, you know, sometimes you're coaching leaders and they're very. They're very serious and put together.

0:11:55 - (Kate Davis): Yes.

0:11:56 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And part of that is like, okay, let's lower the facade.

0:12:00 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:12:01 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And let's get real for a second. Like, you're. You're the CEO of this company or you're the owner of this. This company. And.

0:12:10 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:12:11 - (Scott Burgmeyer): It's. It's lonely as hell.

0:12:14 - (Kate Davis): Right.

0:12:14 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Right. You know, you're. You're making decisions that impact the, the lives of all of. Yeah. Of the people in the company. And you have, you have a sense of responsibility to them and their families and their livelihood etc, and, you know, so there's a huge weight. And who do you have to talk to and who. And. And so, yeah, sometimes we need to just kind of joke a little bit about it or just look at it and say, you know, Kate, like, you're being pretty serious right now. How serious is this?

0:12:46 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah, it's. It's really, really serious. Okay. Or. Well, you know, now that I think about it, it's really not that big of a deal. Yeah.

0:12:56 - (Kate Davis): And have you worked. Have you worked with someone who has inspired you to use more humor? Like, have you ever thought or, you know, like, when you were coming up in the ranks, did you.

0:13:06 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah.

0:13:06 - (Kate Davis): Did you have A boss who was really funny, who made you feel a part of something or, you know, or team leader or.

0:13:14 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Boy, this is, this is probably something.

0:13:16 - (Kate Davis): Sorry, we're going off scripture, people.

0:13:18 - (Scott Burgmeyer): No, no, no, it's totally okay. I'm sitting here thinking about it. I'm like, yeah, sorry. None of my bosses or none of my mentors are nearly as funny as I am.

0:13:25 - (Kate Davis): Yeah, see, there you go. Which is why you're that boss now. I mean, they'd say 90% 7 of leaders prefer working with someone with a sense of humor.

0:13:36 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Oh, yeah.

0:13:37 - (Kate Davis): And that those people are probably more likely to get promoted, you know, and move up faster because they're building that trust and that rapport and, you know, and even Stanford University now is teaching humor as a part of their leadership courses. Very.

0:13:52 - (Scott Burgmeyer): That's super cool. See, I was a trend setter before I even knew it.

0:13:56 - (Kate Davis): You were. That's my point. Yes, absolutely. I mean, what's the biggest difference between working with a team that generally is comfortable with humor and one that's still building trust?

0:14:09 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Oh, boy. I mean, if we're still building trust, we're. I mean, it is like walking on eggshells. And it may not be that delicate, but we're testing the waters. Like, when we talk about trust, we talk about it in levels, right?

0:14:24 - (Kate Davis): Yes.

0:14:24 - (Scott Burgmeyer): The first two levels are really getting to know each other. What's your name? What's your background? That kind of stuff. When you get into level, there's five levels. When you get into level three and four, level three is I'm testing and I'm really like. And when I say testing, it's okay. I'm going to give a little bit of my opinion or perspective and we'll see. How do people react to that? Do they jump down my throat?

0:14:49 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Do they like, do they say, tell me more? Do they accept my perspective or do they bite my head off? Well, if they bite my head off, I ain't sticking it out there anymore.

0:14:59 - (Kate Davis): Right.

0:15:00 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And so it is this piece of, you know, when we're, when we're starting. All right, we might, you know, make a little joke or we, we may not call out some of the obvious things that until we're in that level four, where we're truly sharing, really sharing our perspectives and the other people in the group or that other individual is accepting that, like they're truly listening to it.

0:15:29 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:15:29 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Not rejecting it and saying, hey, you're the craziest person ever. So to me, until you get to that point, I don't know that you can have a full, like, full out humor. And I would also say, like, even with our staff, because they have different perspectives. They don't. We have a couple staff. They don't fully understand my dark humor.

0:15:51 - (Kate Davis): Right.

0:15:51 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And so, like, I am, I'm a little more cautious on what.

0:15:55 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:15:56 - (Scott Burgmeyer): On what I might suggest or say. Yeah, right, Absolutely. It's going to be like, oh, that, that isn't their jam. So they're like, it is back to your. No, no, your audience. And it doesn't mean they're, they're stuffy. It just means their model, their method of humor is not my, like, is not mine.

0:16:17 - (Kate Davis): Yeah. Have you ever actually had it fail on you where you've actually had to say, okay, I, sorry, guys, I. Yeah.

0:16:25 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And I'm trying to. I mean, there's been times where this. Oh, this is. I'll give you an example of.

0:16:31 - (Kate Davis): I love it dark.

0:16:34 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And of course, listeners are going to be like, you said what? And the problem is I don't remember her name. But I was with a group of people and we were talking earlier that day about dark humor. And they're like, oh, we'd love to hear your dark humor. And I'm like, you know, guys, I don't know you that well. Like, we're not going to go there yet.

0:16:50 - (Kate Davis): It's.

0:16:52 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And so, yeah, it was, that's was in my mind. I'm like, it is a trap. Later that afternoon, somebody had got the alert and it's the Olympic skier who. She's 40 something, trying to make a comeback. And it's. I, I don't remember her name you're talking about.

0:17:07 - (Kate Davis): Yeah, okay.

0:17:08 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And she was airlifted off the mountain prior to the Olympics. And they said, oh, no, so and so can't, you know, won't be able to be in the Olympics. I'm like, who's so. And they explain. And I've been following. I'm like, they can go to the Paralympics. What's the problem? Oh, and they looked at me and I said, you all said you wanted to see my dark humor. There it is.

0:17:31 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:17:32 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And they all kind of looked at me. They're like, yeah, that is dark. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. You won't eat it. You all wanted it. And so you, like, in that moment it was like, oh, yeah.

0:17:44 - (Kate Davis): I mean, I get that when people, you know, because I do a lot of stand up still. And my club act is very different from my keynote speaking in my corporate. Completely different. One's clean, one isn't. And you know, I get to a lot of gigs and they're like speaking events and they're like, no, no, we can take it be dirty. But I always know there that one person in the audience who's going to be offended. And I'm not there to do that. I'm there to inspire them, there to lift.

0:18:11 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah.

0:18:11 - (Kate Davis): I'm there to say we can bring humor into the workplace without telling a joke. Right. And, and to me, it's making people feel comfortable and not alienating anyone. Right.

0:18:23 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah. And, and it's that, you know, if you really think people, you know, you, when you talk stand up, you think there are some comedians, that there's a group of, you know, I think like Jimmy Carr, Anthony Jesuit, like, they're like their mode of comedy is not going to be for everyone.

0:18:40 - (Kate Davis): Absolutely. And you know. Yeah, absolutely. Everyone has their. So. And especially when you're going into coach smaller groups, you know, I hate doing, it's so much pressure. I hate doing stand up in small groups because so much pressure on people to laugh.

0:18:54 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah.

0:18:55 - (Kate Davis): Right. You just want to sprinkle it in like a little bit of salt here and there, you know. And I think leaders, once they're doing that and bringing a little bit of themselves to it, you know, really make people feel comfortable. And it's more about making, you know, take your work seriously. You don't have to take yourself too seriously.

0:19:12 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah.

0:19:12 - (Kate Davis): And I think that's sort of the message.

0:19:15 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And I think there's this element of, am I being genuine?

0:19:21 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:19:22 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Am I, you know, and do I, do I care enough that I'm willing to be vulnerable or to share that information?

0:19:35 - (Kate Davis): Yes. Yeah. And is it worth it?

0:19:38 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And, and you know, I, I, my wife is a horse person and so she sent me a video that, the, the short version of the video. It is about how many horses should you own? And it starts off one. Well, then it will be lonely, so you should have two. But if you ride one and you go away, then that one will be lonely. And so it gets to the end that, you know, if you go and you have seven friends, that therefore you should have 10 horses. The right number is 10.

0:20:07 - (Scott Burgmeyer): So she says, you know, based on this video, I should get a couple more horses. And my response to her was, yeah, you don't have that many friends. We're okay. And she's like, yeah, that's funny. Right? And so it is this place of.

0:20:21 - (Kate Davis): Yeah, she knows. Does she have now.

0:20:24 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Oh boy, she has seven.

0:20:28 - (Kate Davis): Oh my gosh, you're a sucker. Yeah, that's great. I used to ride when I was a kid.

0:20:34 - (Scott Burgmeyer): That's what she does. So. She does. Yeah. She integrates horses into mental health therapy. Oh, that is so that, that is her job. So. Yeah. Yeah.

0:20:44 - (Kate Davis): Well, let her get three more. Why are you so stingy? I know, I know what's happening. Get your horses. Hi, it's Kate. I can't believe you made it halfway through the show. Look, if you or anyone you know would like to be a guest on Humor in the C suite, I would love to have you. So email me. Kate at Kate Davis Ca. Have you struck a balance between like when you're coaching, say one on one and you're really getting that rapport with someone and when it is a group, do you find that your humor is different in those situations?

0:21:22 - (Kate Davis): You know, following that sort of five building up the trust.

0:21:25 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And I mean I still think it's still building that and I think, you know, if I'm, and it probably depends on as I really think about, really depends on what am I doing in that moment. If I'm, you know, if I'm one on one to me, I'm going to build up that rapport.

0:21:46 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:21:46 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And we might have a little kind of chuckle as we start fight.

0:21:50 - (Kate Davis): Right.

0:21:52 - (Scott Burgmeyer): You know, you have a group of eight or ten. Yeah, I'll probably be, probably use humor sooner than I would one on one. If I'm, if I'm doing a keynote or I'm doing a talk at a conference. Yeah. I am probably going to be a little more open, playful to try and engage them and bring them in a little faster because you don't, you have 30 minutes or an hour with this group of three or four or 500 people.

0:22:22 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:22:23 - (Scott Burgmeyer): You don't get, I don't get to slow up into it. You got to deliver right now. And so to me I think it's, it's when do you turn it on and when do you not? And so I think the bigger the group, I'm probably going to turn it on sooner versus a smaller group. Yeah.

0:22:40 - (Kate Davis): And you know what, building relationships, really the quickest way to build trust is through humor. Bringing everyone together in that moment. You know, whether, you know, it could be even like a TED Lasso clip, like it doesn't have to be you telling a joke. It could be a story, it could be, you know, it could be something, a game that you bring to the meeting to sort of get them all, you know, wide eyed. And I, I saw this one speaker where they asked everyone to pull out their Phones. And I actually use it now.

0:23:10 - (Kate Davis): And they get. Because everyone's always on their phones.

0:23:13 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Sure.

0:23:14 - (Kate Davis): And they get them to open their photos and scroll four times and then they have to put their finger on a photo, random photo, and tell the person beside them about that photo.

0:23:22 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Oh, nice.

0:23:23 - (Kate Davis): Right? But. And it's sort of a fun way, as long as there's no dirty photos. But then I had one guy really laughing. I'm like, what? What is your photo? And it was just where he parked at the airport.

0:23:38 - (Scott Burgmeyer): I was like, something we all do.

0:23:40 - (Kate Davis): Exactly. So funny. So funny. Just got me giggling. So there's lots of ways that we. And, and it's true. Like, how much time do I have? You know, if you're a salesperson, you're going to be, you know, quick to sort of bring them in. Or if you're a keynote speaker. I totally agree. But if you have, you know, eight sessions with someone, you want to do it slow and, and really build that rapport and that relationship.

0:24:04 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah.

0:24:05 - (Kate Davis): Do you and Tammy use a lot of humor in your relationship?

0:24:08 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Well, she thinks she's funny. She's not that funny

0:24:12 - (Kate Davis): now. I gotta have her on.

0:24:14 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah. I mean, I, I would say we, we do. She, she is, I would say she's more of a mother figure. And, and she'll frequently. Hey, you can't say that. Hey, that was too dark. Hey.

0:24:31 - (Kate Davis): Right. Yeah.

0:24:33 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And we, I think our humor, especially when we're, when we're one on one.

0:24:39 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:24:40 - (Scott Burgmeyer): We're pretty direct with each other. And not, not in a mean way, but we'll be like, hey, and, and it is funny because if we start doing that in front of staff, staff will say, hey, mom and dad are fighting.

0:24:53 - (Kate Davis): Oh, okay.

0:24:55 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And what's so funny is we've never fought.

0:24:58 - (Kate Davis): Right.

0:24:59 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Now there's been times where it's like, I see that a little different.

0:25:02 - (Kate Davis): Right.

0:25:03 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Not like I'm not, I'm not there yet. Or you've had more time. Or I've had more time to, like, reflect on that. And so like, hey, I need to, I need to take a moment. And what we have found is when we're that open and direct with each other, the outcome is actually better.

0:25:23 - (Kate Davis): Wow. Yeah. 100%.

0:25:26 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Because we're pushing each other. Like, oh, hey, if you did it that way, that. But I was thinking we do it this way. Oh, let me think about that. There's a little bit of humor and there's. I would say it's more direct humor

0:25:37 - (Kate Davis): because you have that trust in each other because you've known each other for that long. Yeah, I, I love that. And it's, it's all about that. What benefits do you have you personally experience, you think, in your career from using humor?

0:25:51 - (Scott Burgmeyer): I'm going to say a serious conversation, not a serious conversation. Serious conversation. Right. People knowing that we can have that and chuckle a little bit and it can be a little light, I think puts people at ease. You know, I, there's been times in my career where I've had a, you know. Yeah. I have to go research or I have to go investigate something serious and you know, an allegation or someone got injured or a customer is upset about whatever they're upset about.

0:26:23 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:26:23 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And yeah, that, that's, that's tough. And it's a serious thing. And you know what if we can laugh about it, not laugh at it.

0:26:33 - (Kate Davis): About it.

0:26:34 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Right. About it.

0:26:35 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:26:36 - (Scott Burgmeyer): You know what, People open up, people share. People will be like, oh, yeah, right. I was at a organization earlier this week and we were walking around and one of the, one of the operators thought I was from their corporate office and boy, they gave this our group an earful. And he said, you know, if I wouldn't have to fix all of engineering's drawings, I could actually get twice as much done.

0:27:09 - (Kate Davis): Wow.

0:27:10 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And I, and I said, so I have to ask you a question. Could you also get twice as much done if you didn't complain as much?

0:27:17 - (Kate Davis): Wow.

0:27:19 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And he looked at me and a couple people were like, you just said that to him. Right. And he chuckled about it. Right. And it was uncomfortable. Chuckle.

0:27:27 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:27:28 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And I was trying to send the message like, dude, I like number one, I really can't fix your engineering problem because I don't work for you all.

0:27:35 - (Kate Davis): Yes.

0:27:35 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And you going on a 20 minute monologue is not helpful right now.

0:27:41 - (Kate Davis): Yeah. I wonder if he changed his ways.

0:27:44 - (Scott Burgmeyer): No, I doubt it. He had a. I think I sensed he had a, A small amount of pride about how big of an he could be.

0:27:54 - (Kate Davis): Right. Yeah. There's always one in an office, you know. Yeah.

0:27:59 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And I think it was a good learning moment for the group I was with because they're like, well, how do you manage that? And I'm like, well, you know, the. Here's the reality. He's passionate about what he's saying.

0:28:12 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:28:12 - (Scott Burgmeyer): There's probably some truth in that.

0:28:15 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:28:16 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Somewhere, like. And then we have to understand from. There's probably something in engineering and there's probably some truth there. The reality is somewhere in the middle. Now the other thing, ideally his leader or someone he trusts also we need to talk to him about. Understand your message. And.

0:28:34 - (Kate Davis): Yes.

0:28:35 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Your delivery is not allowing people to hear your message. Wow.

0:28:39 - (Kate Davis): I love that. Yes.

0:28:41 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Right. So the tone, the tenor, your style is making people think, oh, you're a whiner.

0:28:48 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:28:48 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Therefore, there's going to be less interest

0:28:50 - (Kate Davis): to fix something, you know, and it's so true. And when you can sprinkle those humor in those moments, you know, you're gonna bring people in. That's when changes happen. That's when people can see, you know, when we connect with a bit of humor, people, it makes people want to help. It makes people want to create. It makes people feel inspired.

0:29:09 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah.

0:29:09 - (Kate Davis): You know, and it's how, you know, sending that message in a. In maybe a different way then. Yeah. Would Made a huge difference. So I think that's a great point. And I, you know what? I. I found this conversation so interesting because, you know, not only is it, you know, about humor, but it's really about the leadership style and what we can bring to it and. And how humor helps with that collaboration, but it also when not to use it, you know, and when to be cautious. And I think that's, you know, it's. It's like going to the symphony and really living in those moments of silence, those pauses.

0:29:47 - (Kate Davis): And I think that's what's so interesting about this conversation for me, because it's more, you know, what are we stepping back from? We can step back from humor when this is happening or this is happening, and then we can sprinkle it in or throw it in there, you know, and really know your audience. So I've loved our conversation about this. I think it's going to have a lot of impact along the way for leaders.

0:30:08 - (Kate Davis): So we always like to end with the funniest thing that's ever happened to you. Do you have a story you can share with us?

0:30:13 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Oh, boy. I would say the. The funniest thing was probably when I was traveling.

0:30:20 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:30:21 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And I walked onto the plane and someone was sitting in my seat. And so I jokingly say to the flight attendant, you know, I, you know, because I usually am. I usually try to bring humor in those moments. I said, hey, for reference, I am 6 foot 3.

0:30:37 - (Kate Davis): I'm a pretty big guy.

0:30:38 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Okay. So I, like, I have some stat, like physical stature. Yeah, right. And. And I look at the flight attendant, and she's like, she's, you know, maybe up to my shoulder, Tiny little, tiny little gal. And I said, hey, what's the policy here? If someone's in my seat, can I pick them up and throw them off the plane? And she looks at me, and she said, like, at first, she was like, oh, my gosh, this guy's mad.

0:31:06 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:31:06 - (Scott Burgmeyer): She's like, no. No, sir. And I'm like. And I start, chuck. She goes, oh. She says, is someone in your seat? I said, yeah, actually, someone is. I said. And, like, if they're trying to sit next to their spouse or something, and they like, I don't. I really don't care. Now, if I have an aisle seat and you're gonna put me into a middle seat, well, then we're. We're probably. I'm gonna probably tell you.

0:31:25 - (Kate Davis): Fight.

0:31:29 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Well, so what's funny is the guy then is. You can tell he's annoyed, and he's like, no, you're not. Like. And he shows me his. His. And we have the same seat number.

0:31:42 - (Kate Davis): Oh, okay.

0:31:43 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And I'm like. And I look at the flights. I'm like, how can that happen?

0:31:47 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:31:48 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And she says, I don't know. And then I catch his flight number on his. And I'm like, oh, hey, man. I said, this is probably going to, like, shock you. This is not the right flight. Wow. And he's like, what? He was supposed to get on the plane that left that gate before.

0:32:09 - (Kate Davis): Oh, no.

0:32:10 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And so he totally missed his flight. Okay.

0:32:14 - (Kate Davis): Where was.

0:32:14 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Of course he's panicked. He's panicked, right? Yeah. And. And she's like, oh. And she's so apologetic to me. And I look at her. He said, you know, the funny thing here is no one has stopped to say, how did he scan and get on this plane?

0:32:30 - (Kate Davis): Yes.

0:32:32 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And she looks at me, and I said, so I'm not sure. Like, am I allowed to make a terrorist joke right now?

0:32:38 - (Kate Davis): Oh, my.

0:32:41 - (Scott Burgmeyer): She looks at me like, her face is pale. She's like, you cannot do that. I said, I know. It's kind of funny. Yeah.

0:32:49 - (Kate Davis): Oh, my gosh.

0:32:49 - (Scott Burgmeyer): I mean, there's just these moments of. And it was so funny because of course, the guy is blaming everyone except himself.

0:32:57 - (Kate Davis): Yeah. 100.

0:32:59 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And. And I get it. Like, we've all been there. We've all, hey, I went to the wrong gate. Or the gate changed and the app didn't update. Like, we've all.

0:33:07 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:33:08 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Done something like that. So that. That's probably the most recent kind of humor.

0:33:12 - (Kate Davis): But, yeah. Crazy.

0:33:14 - (Scott Burgmeyer): And she was. And what's so funny was, like, she was so sweet the rest of the flight.

0:33:20 - (Kate Davis): Oh, yeah.

0:33:21 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Right. And, you know, so it. You automatically get bonus points.

0:33:24 - (Kate Davis): Yeah, automatically. Like, first class, buddy. Let's go. I love it. That's amazing. That is so funny. Oh, my gosh. And you're. I wonder where he was going or where he was supposed to go.

0:33:37 - (Scott Burgmeyer): I don't know. Yeah, well, back to the ticket agent, probably.

0:33:41 - (Kate Davis): Yeah.

0:33:41 - (Scott Burgmeyer): Yeah, that was his new destination.

0:33:44 - (Kate Davis): Oh, my gosh. So thank you so much for being a guest. I really have loved our conversation.